<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Neil,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I really like this document and suggestions. It is very much in the spirit of what we are trying to do here at CIG (<a href="http://geodynamics.org" class="">geodynamics.org</a>). We would be be interested in contributing our thoughts to it at some point when you are ready.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Dan,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">WRT to ideas from WSSSPE3, I am reminded of a topic that keeps on coming up which was triggered by a recent article about who writes “better code”. The idea that recurs is that of offering some sort of software prize. It could be fun to get a panel discussing and/or audience debate about what “good code”, “beautiful code” etc. means. There are certain tenets we probably can all agree on but after that it gets murky.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">-Lorraine</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">*****************************</div><div class="">Lorraine Hwang, Ph.D.</div><div class="">Associate Director, CIG</div><div class="">530.752.3656</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 17, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Neil Chue Hong (SSI) <<a href="mailto:N.ChueHong@software.ac.uk" class="">N.ChueHong@software.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">I agree that there's still a purpose in holding WSSSPE meetings.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I like Sou-Cheng's ideas (my personal preference would be for demos to be introduced with short 5 minute plenary slots, followed by a longer parallel session where people can ask questions/interact if they want to).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I really like Michael's idea. I agree that a big issue with sustainability is the funding, and perhaps by working together more, we can become better at getting funding for the things we think collectively need it the most rather than a more scatter-gun approach.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For those of us not in the US, can I make a plea for this to be located somewhere which is no more than one hop from a major US entry-hub, so that it's a two hop journey for international attendees?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I also think that there should be a little more focus on the "doing" part of the meeting, where there's a selection of what the community thinks is most important ahead of time - the "what's going to kill us first" style of prioritisation - to enable participants to hit the ground running at the meeting. This might reduce the number of participants, as not everyone might be interested in the topic, but would ensure that we didn't spread ourselves too thin. Perhaps we could use the prioritisations from WSSSPE3 as a starting point?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As for things we could do differently / in addition, two things come to mind (triggered by Lorraine's comments):</div><div class="">- More case studies, including negative or even neutral ones. We should be able to provide pointers to practices in use and how they turned out</div><div class="">- Create a list of evidence that will convince sceptics, and work together to tick off that list one by one</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For example:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Employing a trained software engineer on a scientific software project leads to long-term savings and increased related scientific output over hiring more untrained postdocs / students</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- If you have $10m this year to fund software in a specific area, when is it better to:</div><div class="">a) Provide $10m to one project and ask all the others to merge with it or die</div><div class="">b) Provide $2m to five projects to increase competition and innovation</div><div class="">c) Provide short-fat funding to enable significant new functionality or refactoring</div><div class="">d) Provide long-thin funding to enable retention of skills and ensure maintenance</div><div class="">e) etc. etc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Addressing fears over open-sourcing scientific software (we created a list of fears [1] as part of work on software development practice in the ELIXIR European Life Sciences consortium, along with initial attempts to address them, but it would be good to point to specific examples)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best regards,</div><div class="">Neil</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">[1] This is a draft for information only, and shouldn't be seen as finished: <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C8sWr-r9RJBO-RZaDtgjmlHLHCyTHxsBrD6I12vknQs/edit#heading=h.bg6it3rwav23" class="">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C8sWr-r9RJBO-RZaDtgjmlHLHCyTHxsBrD6I12vknQs/edit#heading=h.bg6it3rwav23</a></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 17 February 2016 at 10:27, Manish Parashar <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:parashar@rutgers.edu" target="_blank" class="">parashar@rutgers.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">Hi Dan,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Agree with most of the comments — I think a focused event on Fall is a good idea and co-locating it with another event makes sense. Something on the east coast (DC) would be great. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Two aspects I would like to see in the workshop is the role of sustainable software in reproducibility, and approaches/best practices in credit/attribution for software.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Manish</div></font></span><div class=""><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">-- </div><div class="">==========================================================================<br class="">Manish Parashar<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Office: CoRE Bldg, Rm 628<br class="">RDI2/OARC/Dept. of Computer Science<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Phone: <a href="tel:%28848%29%20445-5388" value="+18484455388" target="_blank" class="">(848) 445-5388</a><br class="">Rutgers University<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Fax: <a href="tel:%28732%29%20445-0537" value="+17324450537" target="_blank" class="">(732) 445-0537</a><br class="">110 Frelinghuysen Road<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Email: parashar at rutgers dot edu<br class="">Piscataway, NJ 08854-8019<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>WWW: <a href="http://parashar.rutgers.edu/" target="_blank" class="">http://parashar.rutgers.edu</a><br class="">===========================================================================</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<br class=""></font></span><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">On Feb 16, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Daniel S. Katz <<a href="mailto:d.katz@ieee.org" target="_blank" class="">d.katz@ieee.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">Hi,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Please let me know your thoughts about a WSSSPE4 meeting, probably in the fall/autumn.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What would you want such a meeting to accomplish, thinking of what we’ve done previously and what new topics might have come up.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Where should such a meeting take place?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Should we do this along with any other event?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class="">Dan</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:Courier;font-size:12px" class="">-- </span></div><div class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="font-family:'Lucida Grande';font-size:10px" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div style="margin:0px" class=""><font face="Courier" class="">Daniel S. Katz</font></div><div style="margin:0px" class=""><font face="Courier" class="">University of Chicago</font></div><div style="margin:0px" class=""><font face="Courier" class=""><a href="tel:%28773%29%C2%A0834-7186" value="+17738347186" target="_blank" class="">(773) 834-7186</a> (voice)</font></div><div style="margin:0px" class=""><font face="Courier" class=""><a href="tel:%28773%29%20834-6818" value="+17738346818" target="_blank" class="">(773) 834-6818</a> (fax)</font></div><div style="margin:0px" class=""><font face="Courier" class=""><a href="mailto:d.katz@ieee.org" target="_blank" class="">d.katz@ieee.org</a> or <a href="mailto:dsk@ci.uchicago.edu" target="_blank" class="">dsk@uchicago.edu</a></font></div><div style="margin:0px;min-height:14px" class=""><a href="http://danielskatz.org/" style="font-family:Courier" target="_blank" class="">http://danielskatz.org</a></div></div></span></div></div></span></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div><br class=""><br class="">
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<br class=""></div></div></div></div><span class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">WSSSPE mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:WSSSPE@lists.researchcomputing.org.uk" target="_blank" class="">WSSSPE@lists.researchcomputing.org.uk</a><br class=""><a href="http://lists.researchcomputing.org.uk/listinfo.cgi/wssspe-researchcomputing.org.uk" target="_blank" class="">http://lists.researchcomputing.org.uk/listinfo.cgi/wssspe-researchcomputing.org.uk</a><br class=""></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">
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<br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class="">Neil Chue Hong<br class="">Director, Software Sustainability Institute<br class="">EPCC, University of Edinburgh, JCMB, Edinburgh, EH9 3FD, UK<br class="">Tel: +44 (0)131 650 5957<br class=""><a href="http://www.software.ac.uk/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.software.ac.uk/</a><br class=""><br class="">LinkedIn: <a href="http://uk.linkedin.com/in/neilchuehong" target="_blank" class="">http://uk.linkedin.com/in/neilchuehong</a><br class="">Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/npch" target="_blank" class="">http://twitter.com/npch</a><br class=""><div class="">ORCID: <a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-8876-7606" target="_blank" class="">http://orcid.org/0000-0002-8876-7606</a></div></div></div>
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_______________________________________________<br class="">WSSSPE mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:WSSSPE@lists.researchcomputing.org.uk" class="">WSSSPE@lists.researchcomputing.org.uk</a><br class="">http://lists.researchcomputing.org.uk/listinfo.cgi/wssspe-researchcomputing.org.uk<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>